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Sri Bhagavan's Skype conference with Sweden 11/19/09


Bhagavan, can you tell us a little bit about the current situation?


First of all, it’s the first time I’m doing this kind of a conference call, I’m just amazed at this technology, because I’ve never been exposed to this! The question is what is the current situation? The current situation is Krishna came and met me and they were saying that what they were doing was good for the movement, but I could not agree with that and my stand remains unchanged. So they feel that what they are doing is good for the movement. I could not see it like that. So my stand continues to be the same. That is the current situation.


Bhagavan, there are some people in the south of Sweden who are having a prep course for 50 – 60 people, the Oneness Experience course, in a few weeks. What do you think we should do about the fee, should it be for free or should they charge?


First thing is, when they do these courses, there must not be any videos. People could understand and digest the contents in the videos, make it their own based on their life experiences, and it should become their truth and from that they must talk. If it’s only a video, it is speech, it is not work. Work has a special power of transforming people and that must come from the person who’s talking there, that is the live person who is conducting the course, he must base it on his life experience, he must discover that and he must talk. So I would say that there should be no videos. That is the first thing.


The second thing is, with regards to the fees, I would say it is left to the discretion of the trainer. Suppose he goes to a poor locality, where people can not afford, he might have to do it free. Suppose he goes to a place where people can afford, he must fix such charges whereby it will meet all his expenses. And sometimes he can also charge more for his own survival. That depends on the person who’s conducting the course. I want the person to have the freedom. Not Oneness stipulating conditions. Oneness’s job is just to train people and let them go. They have to be on their own. They can organize themselves if they want to. What rules they want to form is their business. We as a body here should, we not interfere in these matters. Our only job is to keep training people and finally fade out from the scene, because we are a group of monks and monks should not prey on significance or power or anything for that matter. Monks should actually fade away after it’s work is done. Our work is only training the trainers, that’s all. It’s not that we should come there, we should conduct our courses. That way the local place will never really develop. Unless the local people do the courses themselves, they organize things for themselves without any outside interference, the dharma or the movement can not grow.


I have seen people from around the world who have taken oneness principles, adapted them, and do wonderful courses. I have been pointing out this and said, “to be in tune with oneness, the trainer must have complete freedom”. The trainer must not be restricted by a video or instructions from the headquarters. No. And regarding the fee structure, it’s only general guidance. Keep it free or charge enough so that you meet your expenses. And in case you’re a full-timer who’s dependent on that, then charge to the extent that you can survive. It should not be a means to become a wealthy person or this or that. It should be a means for survival. That is all.


And as the monks are concerned, they are not to go out and do courses. If they do, the local people will not grow, will not flourish. So their job is only to train and then quietly and anonymously leave the scene. This has been a tradition in India. There have been hundreds of great thinkers and spiritual giants who are the founders of Hinduism, but nobody knows their names, nobody knows where they lived. They just gave their teachings and then they became anonymous and faded away from the scene. That has been the tradition and Oneness also has the same principles: fade away from the scene. Otherwise it is going to become a cult, it will start controlling people in various ways and it will be creating more trouble to the world than good. As we see all these religions, what are they doing? They are causing more harm than good. And we’ll be adding one more to this whole list of cults and groups and religions. So I do not want that to happen. I want to see it dissolve in my lifetime, when I am healthy and strong, not when I become old. I want to have a set timetable for this and for me the timetable is 2014. In 2014 we should cease to exist. This is my stand. This has always been my stand. It is not a new stand. It has always been my stand. There used to be a big board in Satyaloka, in Jeevashram, at the entrance, which said, “This place exists to set man totally and unconditionally free”. That has been my life. I have been working for that. How could I move away from that? But of lately, I see things are moving in that direction, where “Oneness” is becoming like a structure. The “O” is a capital letter, I don’t know why it’s a capital letter, which means it’s an institution in itself. These are principles, it cannot be an institutition. And it can not be a controlling body. Oneness is a set of principles, like mathematics, chemistry and biology – that’s all. That can not be institutionalized. This is my stand.


Please continue.


According to the guides who have now stepped out of the order, so to speak, they will continue just like before. Please give us some clarification for that.


Let us say that you are running Bofors company. You are the boss of Bofors and you appoint a manager for Bofors in South America. Then after some time he makes some changes and he claims that he is the owner of Bofors. Would you agree to that?




Same thing here. They have been sent out as monks, my monks, to do some particular work and come back. Now you are not a monk anymore. You do not represent me anymore. So what right have you to continue the work? You have left me. You are not in the order. This work is supposed to be done by monks. You are no more a monk. You’re a normal person and you have gone out there as my representative to do my courses. I have been training, these are my courses and now since you have left me, how can you continue with it? What right have you got; morally, ethically, legally? What are your rights? You have no rights whatsoever.


That is why I call this a coup. I hope you understand the word coup.


What was that Bhagavan? Coup?


See, for example, in Africa and Asian countries, some general will overthrow the ruler, the president or the prime minister or the elected person, and take over reigns into his own hands. Like in Pakistan, Musharraf took over the reigns from the democratically elected president, but he’s not in a break-away group. It’s a coup because they hold the properties, they hold all the money with them, they hold the website. I do not even have a website. It’s all under their control like you capture a radiostation. So I’m literally not able to communicate with the world, because you people happen to call up I’m able to communicate. So it is like a takeover, it’s like a coup, you have no right to stay on in Italy or in England, because you’ve moved away from me. You’ve cut the cord. You’re on your own. So how do you represent me? What is the right you have? You don’t have anything at all. But you continue to say you are Oneness. You say AmmaBhagavan’s blessings are there. You say you have AmmaBhagavan’s permission, there’s no permission. And you continue to do Oneness there. What right have you got? You’re taking the people for a ride. This is what is happening.


Thank you Bhagavan for this clarification.


Bhagavan, my name is Micke and I’m a part of the youth trainer team together with Elias from Germany, Daniel and Rochana from Italy and so on. What I want and what some other youth trainers want also, is to go through a much deeper process of awakening. We went through the 21-day process, the level 2 process and the trainer course, but we feel we want to attend a much more powerful process with you. I heard of a process where you are in a dark room for a long time with many deekshas and so on. Is that process being offered by you or is that the level 3?


See, level 3 is basically interacting with me. What I have been telling them is, “Instead of you people going out of India and doing these courses, come back to India. Let us focus on the trainers. Time is running out. Let us not go about doing an LIO course or this course or that course. Let us get the trainers here, let us work on them, let us develop them. They will go and take care of the world. It’s not our business to take care of the world. Our work is to train the trainers”. But they’re doing exactly the opposite.


Level 3 is people coming to India and interacting with me on a daily basis, in the temple or in the World Oneness Centre, and part of that would be the dark room process. That is Level 3. What they were saying was, “If you’re going to ask them to come to India, you are making it into a cult”. My argument was, “If I saw you must come to India! You must meet me! Then it’s a cult. All I’m saying is, you’re welcome to come to India and you’re welcome to talk to me. If that is the case how does it become a cult?”


At this level, only I’ll be able to talk. It’s beyond them. They’ve not been given the training. They do not have that knowledge. It’s I that has to interact with the trainers and develop them further. Why is it they don’t like the idea of people coming here? Why is it they should be stopped there itself? This has been puzzling. And I’ve said 2012 is coming now. We’re only few people in number. Let us gather together. We have to start meditating here in the temple and that has to be skyped all over the world. We must gather and meditate. That’s why we have built the whole temple itself or what we call the World Oneness Centre. They are not for all these things. Time is running out, we have to improve. The time is very, very fast. We have to put more power into them, more teachings into them. They have to realize these teachings and talk from there. It’ll have a tremendous effect.


But instead of that they want to start big, big LIO’s all over the world and they say soon it will be 5000 people, then 10 000 people, then 30 000 people. Do we need all those people? Why these big numbers? We’ll only become a better known cult in that case, we’ll become a dominating force, we’ll be controlling people. That’s not what we want. We don’t want that many people, we don’t want that much amount, where do we put all those things? We just have to work on our trainers. Pick up the good ones. They say “Oh, they’re not up to the mark”. Why not? If they’re not up the mark, let’s work on them, let’s improve them. There are wonderful trainers also. We can update the knowledge. If so many of them go and do courses it will not become a cult. And I said, give them complete freedom. They can add and subtract anything from oneness. Oneness is not the only format.


Oneness is like sugar, you can add it to coffee, tea, in chocolate, whatever you want. That is how we have to prevent this from becoming a cult. We as an organisation should slowly dissolve ourselves. What they are doing is, they’re destroying oneness. They’re doing something which is not oneness. If you’re going to control the trainer, it is not oneness. If you give a video and control him, that is not oneness. If you’re going to tell how much money to collect, that much should go to the local body, that to this body, that to headquarters  - that is not oneness. If the Oneness Trainer does not come from his own insights, that is not oneness. If the Trainer does not have the freedom to add and subtract, that is not oneness. Whereas the monk, he has to stick to something. When they do the courses, they have got to stick to it, because that is what we are giving. We can’t do it in a hundred different ways. That will confuse people. But let people make use of it in a hundred different ways. That is what we are telling.


And another thing is, I told them, “Please come back to India”. What is the problem with coming back to India? This problem is only with those dasas who left India. Not the dasas in India. The only problem with the Indian dasas have been those who have been conducting elite courses. Who stay in elite homes, move with the elite. They are the ones who have gone out. Because I said, “Make those courses free in India”, I said “India is a poor country. There are millions who can never afford these courses in their lives”. And when I said this they were most unhappy about it. Now, we are monks, why do you want all that money? Money we might need for some reasons, that’s all. But then we ought to focus on the poor people. Why is it being such an anathema that you don’t want to mix with the poor? Are we some snobbish people? We’re only monks, that’s all.


So whatever I have been proposing, they don’t seem to be liking it. Once they have gone west, they don’t want to come back to India. And I’ve considered all that and said “OK, alright, be there until 2010 or the beginning of 2011, then you’ve got to come back. Because there is one year after that, we have to work very, very hard”. We have told the whole world, 2012 something is going to happen. We said in the temple we’ll meditate, we’ll pass on energies. But you’re not willing to come back here, not willing to send people here. What is going on? Why should you stay back in the west? If you’re going to stay back in the west, then why the trainers then?” The trainers are the ones doing all the hard work, they’re going out, meeting people, convincing them. They should be given more power. It is their job, not ours. What is the idea of camping in the west, wanting to stay on in Italy or wanting to stay on in Fiji, wanting to be out there and conducting these LIO’s and all this kind of stuff? Is that our work? Our work is spiritual work. Keep them probably in the dark room, make them meditate, meditate along with them, keep them in the temple, give them the insights; that is Level 3, that is the next preparation.


When I said 2014 we must be out of the scene, we must become anonymous slowly. Now if you’re going to do huge LIO programmes, how do you become anonymous? It means we are building ourselves up. I want the reverse thing to happen. The building up is only of the individual, not Oneness as a movement or an organisation. All those hundreds of trainers, they have to be built up.


*Unclear name* is there, for example, he is a follower of Rajneesh. And in his courses he combines oneness so beautifully and it’s so very effective. I’ve seen many other people. *Unclear name* for example, they mix up oneness in their courses, it’s so wonderful it is. That’s how it has to go. Why should they only stick for oneness? There is no need for that.