with Bhagavan February 16, 2005
Questioner: What comes
Bhagavan: God-realization. You can be
truly God realized only if you are
Questioner: You say we can choose to be
filled with divine entities. How can we
be a help to the world if we are just a
container for divine beings?
Bhagavan: If you are enlightened you
can be a help to mankind. If you are
filled with divine beings you can be a
great help. You become a divine being,
not just a container for them! When you
talk of divine beings taking over, it is
the descent of higher consciousness, not
like a spirit possession. You
experience life as Christ experienced
life, not as one possessed by a spirit.
Questioner: How many divine beings can
come through in one body?
Bhagavan: There is no limit. In the
course of time, perhaps a few weeks, one
being could become more dominant. But it
is not like we think. They do not fight
Questioner: How will our relationships
be once divine beings take possession?
Bhagavan: They will then be directing
all affairs, will do things
effortlessly. It will be much easier
for them to handle even worldly things.
Questioner: Is there a maximum level
Bhagavan: There is no maximum level, it
is endless. For example, for some
people, ‘you’ will be reduced and the
divine beings will also be there. For
the guides you see with unshaven heads,
they are there with their conditioning
and memories, but the person is no
longer there. For the guides you see
with their heads shaven, there is no
person, no memories. You are looking
directly at a divine being. They do not
know where they were born, or who their
parents are, although of course if they
needed to know or were talking with
their parents, the divine being could
access this knowledge. But that state
we will not be giving you! For that kind
of state they need to be taken care of.
For those who want those kinds of states
we need to certify that there are people
who could take care of you.
Questioner: Could you please prove to
those who are still not sure you are an
Bhagavan: Certainly I will prove in the
course of the process. The best thing
will be for you to devise the proof, and
I will meet you on your terms.
Questioner: In the West, there is
little faith that enlightenment is
easy. There is a need for proof. Will
you give a few miracles to help it
Bhagavan: We certainly will do it.
Questioner: As an avatar what realm do
you prefer to be in?
Bhagavan: This question has no
relevance for you because you have no
idea of those realms, or lokas. But if
you are willing I could take you along
to those lokas, and you could spend some
time with me there. I believe in giving
experiences and not just talking about
Questioner: Why does humanity exist?
What is our purpose here?
Bhagavan: There is no purpose at all.
Existence, all creation, is just an act
of joy. Once you are fully enlightened
you will see we are in paradise. The
moment you start fully living the
question just disappears.
Questioner: You teach us that our body
is not our body, our thoughts are not
our thoughts, our mind is not our mind,
and that the self is just a concept.
Where is the soul in all this? Where is
karma ‘hooked’ on?
Bhagavan: There is no soul, neither is
there sin, but just karma. It’s not my
karma or your karma, just the karma of
humanity. For example, there is a
family that used to continuously fight
with each other. It was discovered that
their house was built on top of an
ancient battlefield, and so those
energies continued to flow through
them. Once they shifted from that land
they stopped fighting. There is no such
thing as karma because there is no soul
in the first place. Hence there is no
liberation of the soul either.
Questioner: What happens if someone
offers to do certain sadhanas in order
to get boons but isn’t able to fulfill
Bhagavan: You have to strike a new
Questioner: When the ‘I’ is gone and
there is speaking or walking, can we say
‘It’ speaks or walks, or ‘We’ speak or
walk, because it is you who are now
speaking or walking through us?
Bhagavan: It is just the body which
speaks or walks, but there is nobody
there. To conceive of this is difficult
for the mind. You have to experience
this! It’s quite simple. You do not
have to make yourself breathe or your
heart to beat or make your nails grow or
your hair grow. It just happens
automatically. Just so, you will talk
or walk automatically. It will be so
beautiful. It will be perfect
Questioner: During the 10 day process we
receive deeksha by affirming “deeksha
Amma Bhagavan”. What is the difference
between this and the hands-on deeksha?
Can I also transfer it to others this
Bhagavan: You can do this but you must
be in a very good state. Here you have
all these ‘bodies’ to help!
Questioner: I was so lucky to receive a
life review today. At the end of the
journey I was asking, ‘Who am I?’
Bhagavan: On a psychological level, you
are that question. There is no answer.
If the question goes, you go. It is by
continually asking that question that
you perpetuate yourself. When you become
enlightened, the question goes away, and
so do you. You are nothing but
consciousness, a witness. You will make
it very rapidly. The life review is the
key. Once you have done it, everything
else is very rapid.
Questioner: Can you tell us about
prayer? How should we pray? Is praying
to you or Jesus the same as praying to
Bhagavan: If you ask, ‘Who is God?’ the
antaryamin is God. As you grow, the way
the antaryamin appears to you will also
grow. It can be outside you also, and
can take any form – Buddha, Christ,
etc. It is the antaryamin who does
everything. If you are waiting by the
bus stop and want the bus to stop, you
can ask your antaryamin. The antaryamin
is also the bus driver! For Jesus or
Bhagavan to pick up your prayer you must
have a bond with them, an emotional
connection, and clarity. Unless it is
going to harm somebody most prayers will
Questioner: Does the process change
according to culture, nationality, etc.?
Bhagavan: Yes, it changes. In a
Christian group we only use the Bible.
For Muslims, Buddhists, etc. it will be
in their own form. For Westerners it
will be a secular process. This is the
least powerful, but we dare not do
more. It is a diluted version. It is
generally what we do for Western
people. In a Christian group most of
you would have made it already!
Questioner: Where is the mind?
Bhagavan: You should ask, “Is there a
mind?” If you go deep you will find
here is no such thing as a personal
mind. You will find it is a very
material process happening in the brain.
Questioner: When we ask Bhagavan a
question, how do we know if the answer
is from Bhagavan or from our
Bhagavan: you must ask Bhagavan to
prove to you that it is the antaryamin
and not just the subconscious. If it is
the antaryamin there is a very nice
feeling in the chest region.
Questioner: What happens to a person
after death? Where do they go? What is
the journey after death like?
Bhagavan: Normally after you die you
hang around for 3 days. You can see
everyone around you still. The person
may not know he is dead for 3 days,
although one people start weeping they
begin to suspect. Doing a proper ritual
can help them make a transition.
Normally the journey begins after 3
days. It is a very beautiful journey.
You meet people along the way that you
knew. In ten days you meet the Light.
By your clock it will take ten days. It
is not as fast as in NDE’s. There is a
life review. You constantly go into the
bodies of those you have interacted
with. You judge yourself according to
the same standards you use for others,
and decide where you want to go. If you
think you deserve to go to hell, then
you can do so. There is a Christian
hell, a Buddhist hell, an Islamic
jehenna, etc, not much different from
each other. On the other hand, you
haven’t judged people you will not judge
yourself. If you ask for liberation,
the beauty is that no matter what has
happened in your life, the Light cannot
Questioner: I have to work very hard to
develop myself. It is hard to believe
it can be just given. Is there a
difference between enlightenment after
hard work and enlightenment which is
Bhagavan: First of all, show me someone
who has worked very hard and is
enlightened. It is only when you stop
seeking that you can make it. Even the
Buddha only got enlightened after he
gave up the search. The ‘you’ that
seeks is the problem. It has to be
given to you. The very effort to get
there sustains the ‘I’. What a terrible
situation! After 30 or 40 years many
have not moved an inch closer. In India
if you are a guru and take a disciple,
you have to take them through to the
very end – or else you go to a special
hell that is just for gurus! If you
cannot give it you should not talk about
it, or you should honestly say that you
are just talking about it but cannot
give it. One person here got
enlightened in prison. That’s where he
had to give up the search.
Enlightenment must happen in the brain.
Soon we will take brain scans and work
with neuroscientists. Give up trying to
get enlightened. At least then you can
enjoy your life!
Questioner: Can an ordinary devotee
become one with God?
Bhagavan: Anybody can become one with
God as long as you have a divine being
within oneself and you have melted with
that and it merges with your antaryamin.
You yourself cannot become one with God.
Questioner: Does an enlightened person
not suffer anymore? If so, how is it
that Christ suffered?
Bhagavan: An enlightened person can
suffer but it is not personal
suffering. There is no ‘me’ involved.
If he sees war he will suffer. That
suffering will always be there as long
as suffering is there. When you speak
of the ending of suffering it is the end
of personal suffering. Christ did not
experience personal suffering.
Questioner: What is the difference
between an age of enlightenment and a
Bhagavan: We talk of an age of
enlightenment and a golden age. An age
of enlightenment refers to the process
of inner transformation that is taking
place for humanity. A Golden Age is the
external transformation of the world.
Physically the world will become
unimaginably beautiful – no pollution,
no war, etc. Once you become
individually enlightened, each of you
helps 100,000 people make it. That is
your role. Unless you have a destiny to
fulfill this role, you would not have
found your way here.
Questioner: After the 21 day process
will the deeksha we give facilitate
permanent states of enlightenment?
Bhagavan: If you give deeksha to a
hundred people, two or three of them
will move to a permanent state. The
others will be in a state of
enlightenment that will come and go, and
may need additional deekshas. If,
however, a divine spirit is inside you,
the percentage will increase. After
2010 it will be 90-95%. The more simple
and innocent you are, the less sadhana
you have done, the fewer books you have
read, the more uncluttered your mind,
the quicker it will be. For the
villagers, they have not been seekers,
read no books, studied no philosophy,
done no sadhanas. In two hours, they
all get enlightened. Recently we had
some Christian bishops from Africa, very
simple people. In six days it was all
over! They said, “We came, God is going
back”. Here you are all intellectual
people, read a lot, done much window
shopping. It is more difficult for
you. You need 21 days!
Questioner: Can we give deeksha to
Bhagavan: Yes, it is possible.
Questioner: What happens to free will
Bhagavan: You never had free will,
except the illusion of free will. When
you lose hat illusion you realize you
have no free will. All that happens is
that the illusion that you were in
charge disappears. I will prove it to
you in the process!
Questioner: Will enlightenment allow me
to feel a connection with you all my
life or will doubts still come and go?
Bhagavan: Enlightenment will not help
much with this. Only a divine being
will relate that way. A mere
enlightened person will not do that.
Questioner: Has there been a time in
history where God and humanity were in
total harmony? Why did this change?
Bhagavan: We did have such a time. God
would just chat with them. In some
cases the antaryamin would be eating and
drinking with people. Why this changes
depends on the energies the Earth
receives from the cosmos – it depends on
our relationship with the star ‘moolam’,
which in turn results in changes in the
Questioner: If everything the small
self does is out of self-interest, who
is it that seeks enlightenment?
Bhagavan: The small self, therefore it
will never make it.
Questioner: Is it possible to give
enlightenment to a schizophrenic?
Bhagavan: We have had schizophrenics
here who have been cured but we do not
have data about whether they have been
enlightened. I think it should be
Questioner: Is enlightenment encoded in
the DNA? If so, are we reconnecting it?
Bhagavan: Certainly the DNA must be
programmed. We believe that once the
60,000 critical mass is reached it will
become spontaneous everywhere.
Questioner: If the self is gone, who is
left after enlightenment?
Bhagavan: Nobody is there. You wonder
if nobody is there how will you
function. You think ‘you’ need to be
there. But you can function beautifully
and efficiently. You are the witness,
not the doer – watching it all. There
are thousands of such people now. It is
for you to get there now. The strangest
thing is, it is the most beautiful thing
that can happen to you, ‘you’ going
away. But you become scared, especially
Western people. So that is why we are
going at a snail’s pace with you –
because you refuse to die. You are
terrified of death, because of the
conditioning. Strangely, we do not have
this problem with Orthodox Christians.
But for most Westerners, you are so
scared to die. Are you prepared to go?
Then we will step it up! Some time ago
a Western lady physically ran away from
the process. So we had to reverse the
process for her. The most important
thing is that you must get over the
fear. Look at all these people here.
They eat ice cream, drink coffee, play
Questioner: It seems this movement is
evolving. Is there an end to what you
can teach us?
Bhagavan: Consciousness is ever
evolving. But as far as we are
concerned, once the 64,000 is achieved,
we will close shop. Already you find
that we do not go out anywhere. All
that we intend to do is offer this to
the 64,000. Then we will just have a
good time here. It is for you people to
do whatever you want. I am not a
messiah to transform mankind. I have
prepared a few people to put them in a
state. They will prepare the 64,000 and
put them in a state. Then you will be
able to do this to humanity. Kalki? I
am not Kalki. Kalki is all the Hindu
gods put together. It is not one person
but a huge number of people who will
transform humanity. So also the Christ,
Imam Mehdi, Maitreya. The Kalki, or
Christ, or Maitreya who comes into you –
it will be up to him then – we will just
close shop here and have a good time!
Questioner: Who is God and how does God
Bhagavan: God is the antaryamin. How
he expresses himself is up to you. God
is specific to you. Someone else’s
antaryamin has a different relationship
with you. Only a friendly person who is
kind and compassionate to others will
have an antaryamin who is friendly, kind
and compassionate. If you want a God
who will answer prayers fast, you better
do the same to others. The antaryamin
can be formless or it can appear as
Christ, Krishna, Maitreya, etc. If you
need 10 or 12 commandments, if you have
been commanding people, then you will
have that kind of God. Your antaryamin
could very well come out and become
external to you. A non-physical
antaryamin can move through your being,
move your hand or your body. It an also
be physical, as with many people in
India. It is the antaryamin that takes
you to your past lives and to other
lokas, it is this that performs the
brain surgery. It can take a hoodlum
and make him loving and kind; it can
take a dull person and make him into a
genius. You must become one with a
divine being, a higher consciousness.
Ramana had Shiva inside him. To become
one with the antaryamin is to become one
with God. So the first few days, build
up a good relationship with your
antaryamin. If you this is all hypnosis
or imagination or hallucination, the
process will stop. It is an affront to
the antaryamin. Our job is to provide
the necessary power to hook up to your
antaryamin. The rest is up to you!