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Darshan with Bhagavan February 16, 2005

by Kiara Windrider

Questioner:  What comes after enlightenment?
Bhagavan:  God-realization.  You can be truly God realized only if you are enlightened.
Questioner:  You say we can choose to be filled with divine entities.  How can we be a help to the world if we are just a container for divine beings?
Bhagavan:  If you are enlightened you can be a help to mankind.  If you are filled with divine beings you can be a great help.  You become a divine being, not just a container for them!  When you talk of divine beings taking over, it is the descent of higher consciousness, not like a spirit possession.  You experience life as Christ experienced life, not as one possessed by a spirit.
Questioner:  How many divine beings can come through in one body?
Bhagavan: There is no limit. In the course of time, perhaps a few weeks, one being could become more dominant. But it is not like we think. They do not fight like us!
Questioner: How will our relationships be once divine beings take possession?
Bhagavan:  They will then be directing all affairs, will do things effortlessly.  It will be much easier for them to handle even worldly things.
Questioner:  Is there a maximum level for enlightenment?
Bhagavan:  There is no maximum level, it is endless.  For example, for some people, ‘you’ will be reduced and the divine beings will also be there.  For the guides you see with unshaven heads, they are there with their conditioning and memories, but the person is no longer there.  For the guides you see with their heads shaven, there is no person, no memories.  You are looking directly at a divine being.  They do not know where they were born, or who their parents are, although of course if they needed to know or were talking with their parents, the divine being could access this knowledge.  But that state we will not be giving you! For that kind of state they need to be taken care of. For those who want those kinds of states we need to certify that there are people who could take care of you.
Questioner:  Could you please prove to those who are still not sure you are an avatar?
Bhagavan: Certainly I will prove in the course of the process. The best thing will be for you to devise the proof, and I will meet you on your terms.
Questioner:  In the West, there is little faith that enlightenment is easy.  There is a need for proof. Will you give a few miracles to help it along?
Bhagavan:  We certainly will do it.
Questioner:  As an avatar what realm do you prefer to be in?
Bhagavan:  This question has no relevance for you because you have no idea of those realms, or lokas.  But if you are willing I could take you along to those lokas, and you could spend some time with me there. I believe in giving experiences and not just talking about it.
Questioner:  Why does humanity exist?  What is our purpose here?
Bhagavan:  There is no purpose at all.  Existence, all creation, is just an act of joy.  Once you are fully enlightened you will see we are in paradise.  The moment you start fully living the question just disappears.
Questioner:  You teach us that our body is not our body, our thoughts are not our thoughts, our mind is not our mind, and that the self is just a concept.  Where is the soul in all this?  Where is karma ‘hooked’ on?
Bhagavan:  There is no soul, neither is there sin, but just karma.  It’s not my karma or your karma, just the karma of humanity.  For example, there is a family that used to continuously fight with each other.  It was discovered that their house was built on top of an ancient battlefield, and so those energies continued to flow through them.  Once they shifted from that land they stopped fighting.  There is no such thing as karma because there is no soul in the first place.  Hence there is no liberation of the soul either.
Questioner:  What happens if someone offers to do certain sadhanas in order to get boons but isn’t able to fulfill the sadhana?
Bhagavan:  You have to strike a new deal.
Questioner:  When the ‘I’ is gone and there is speaking or walking, can we say ‘It’ speaks or walks, or ‘We’ speak or walk, because it is you who are now speaking or walking through us?
Bhagavan:  It is just the body which speaks or walks, but there is nobody there.  To conceive of this is difficult for the mind.  You have to experience this!  It’s quite simple.  You do not have to make yourself breathe or your heart to beat or make your nails grow or your hair grow.  It just happens automatically.  Just so, you will talk or walk automatically.  It will be so beautiful. It will be perfect
Questioner: During the 10 day process we receive deeksha by affirming “deeksha Amma Bhagavan”.  What is the difference between this and the hands-on deeksha?  Can I also transfer it to others this way?
Bhagavan:  You can do this but you must be in a very good state.  Here you have all these ‘bodies’ to help!
Questioner:  I was so lucky to receive a life review today.  At the end of the journey I was asking, ‘Who am I?’
Bhagavan:  On a psychological level, you are that question.  There is no answer.  If the question goes, you go.  It is by continually asking that question that you perpetuate yourself. When you become enlightened, the question goes away, and so do you.  You are nothing but consciousness, a witness.  You will make it very rapidly.  The life review is the key.  Once you have done it, everything else is very rapid.
Questioner:  Can you tell us about prayer?  How should we pray?  Is praying to you or Jesus the same as praying to God?
Bhagavan:  If you ask, ‘Who is God?’ the antaryamin is God.  As you grow, the way the antaryamin appears to you will also grow.  It can be outside you also, and can take any form – Buddha, Christ, etc.  It is the antaryamin who does everything.  If you are waiting by the bus stop and want the bus to stop, you can ask your antaryamin.  The antaryamin is also the bus driver!  For Jesus or Bhagavan to pick up your prayer you must have a bond with them, an emotional connection, and clarity.  Unless it is going to harm somebody most prayers will be answered.
Questioner:  Does the process change according to culture, nationality, etc.?
Bhagavan:  Yes, it changes.  In a Christian group we only use the Bible.  For Muslims, Buddhists, etc. it will be in their own form.  For Westerners it will be a secular process.  This is the least powerful, but we dare not do more.  It is a diluted version.  It is generally what we do for Western people.  In a Christian group most of you would have made it already!
Questioner: Where is the mind?
Bhagavan:  You should ask, “Is there a mind?”  If you go deep you will find here is no such thing as a personal mind.  You will find it is a very material process happening in the brain.
Questioner: When we ask Bhagavan a question, how do we know if the answer is from Bhagavan or from our subconscious?
Bhagavan:  you must ask Bhagavan to prove to you that it is the antaryamin and not just the subconscious.  If it is the antaryamin there is a very nice feeling in the chest region.
Questioner:  What happens to a person after death?  Where do they go?  What is the journey after death like?
Bhagavan:  Normally after you die you hang around for 3 days. You can see everyone around you still.  The person may not know he is dead for 3 days, although one people start weeping they begin to suspect.  Doing a proper ritual can help them make a transition.  Normally the journey begins after 3 days. It is a very beautiful journey.  You meet people along the way that you knew.  In ten days you meet the Light.  By your clock it will take ten days.  It is not as fast as in NDE’s. There is a life review.  You constantly go into the bodies of those you have interacted with.  You judge yourself according to the same standards you use for others, and decide where you want to go.  If you think you deserve to go to hell, then you can do so.  There is a Christian hell, a Buddhist hell, an Islamic jehenna, etc, not much different from each other.  On the other hand, you haven’t judged people you will not judge yourself.  If you ask for liberation, the beauty is that no matter what has happened in your life, the Light cannot say ‘No’! 
Questioner: I have to work very hard to develop myself.  It is hard to believe it can be just given.  Is there a difference between enlightenment after hard work and enlightenment which is given?
Bhagavan:  First of all, show me someone who has worked very hard and is enlightened. It is only when you stop seeking that you can make it.  Even the Buddha only got enlightened after he gave up the search.  The ‘you’ that seeks is the problem.  It has to be given to you.  The very effort to get there sustains the ‘I’.  What a terrible situation! After 30 or 40 years many have not moved an inch closer.  In India if you are a guru and take a disciple, you have to take them through to the very end – or else you go to a special hell that is just for gurus!  If you cannot give it you should not talk about it, or you should honestly say that you are just talking about it but cannot give it.  One person here got enlightened in prison.  That’s where he had to give up the search.  Enlightenment must happen in the brain.  Soon we will take brain scans and work with neuroscientists.  Give up trying to get enlightened.  At least then you can enjoy your life!
Questioner:  Can an ordinary devotee become one with God?
Bhagavan:  Anybody can become one with God as long as you have a divine being within oneself and you have melted with that and it merges with your antaryamin.  You yourself cannot become one with God.
Questioner:  Does an enlightened person not suffer anymore?  If so, how is it that Christ suffered?
Bhagavan:  An enlightened person can suffer but it is not personal suffering.  There is no ‘me’ involved.  If he sees war he will suffer. That suffering will always be there as long as suffering is there.  When you speak of the ending of suffering it is the end of personal suffering.  Christ did not experience personal suffering.
Questioner:  What is the difference between an age of enlightenment and a golden age?
Bhagavan:  We talk of an age of enlightenment and a golden age.  An age of enlightenment refers to the process of inner transformation that is taking place for humanity.  A Golden Age is the external transformation of the world.  Physically the world will become unimaginably beautiful – no pollution, no war, etc.  Once you become individually enlightened, each of you helps 100,000 people make it.  That is your role.  Unless you have a destiny to fulfill this role, you would not have found your way here.
Questioner:  After the 21 day process will the deeksha we give facilitate permanent states of enlightenment?
Bhagavan:  If you give deeksha to a hundred people, two or three of them will move to a permanent state.  The others will be in a state of enlightenment that will come and go, and may need additional deekshas.  If, however, a divine spirit is inside you, the percentage will increase.  After 2010 it will be 90-95%.  The more simple and innocent you are, the less sadhana you have done, the fewer books you have read, the more uncluttered your mind, the quicker it will be.  For the villagers, they have not been seekers, read no books, studied no philosophy, done no sadhanas.  In two hours, they all get enlightened.  Recently we had some Christian bishops from Africa, very simple people.  In six days it was all over! They said, “We came, God is going back”.  Here you are all intellectual people, read a lot, done much window shopping.  It is more difficult for you.  You need 21 days!
Questioner:  Can we give deeksha to ourselves?
Bhagavan:  Yes, it is possible.
Questioner:  What happens to free will after enlightenment?
Bhagavan:  You never had free will, except the illusion of free will. When you lose hat illusion you realize you have no free will.  All that happens is that the illusion that you were in charge disappears.  I will prove it to you in the process!
Questioner:  Will enlightenment allow me to feel a connection with you all my life or will doubts still come and go?
Bhagavan:  Enlightenment will not help much with this.  Only a divine being will relate that way.  A mere enlightened person will not do that.
Questioner:  Has there been a time in history where God and humanity were in total harmony?  Why did this change?
Bhagavan:  We did have such a time. God would just chat with them.  In some cases the antaryamin would be eating and drinking with people.  Why this changes depends on the energies the Earth receives from the cosmos – it depends on our relationship with the star ‘moolam’, which in turn results in changes in the human brain.
Questioner:  If everything the small self does is out of self-interest, who is it that seeks enlightenment?
Bhagavan:  The small self, therefore it will never make it.
Questioner:  Is it possible to give enlightenment to a schizophrenic?
Bhagavan:  We have had schizophrenics here who have been cured but we do not have data about whether they have been enlightened.  I think it should be possible.
Questioner:  Is enlightenment encoded in the DNA?  If so, are we reconnecting it?
Bhagavan:  Certainly the DNA must be programmed.  We believe that once the 60,000 critical mass is reached it will become spontaneous everywhere.
Questioner:  If the self is gone, who is left after enlightenment?
Bhagavan:  Nobody is there.  You wonder if nobody is there how will you function.  You think ‘you’ need to be there.  But you can function beautifully and efficiently.  You are the witness, not the doer – watching it all.  There are thousands of such people now.  It is for you to get there now.  The strangest thing is, it is the most beautiful thing that can happen to you, ‘you’ going away.  But you become scared, especially Western people. So that is why we are going at a snail’s pace with you – because you refuse to die.  You are terrified of death, because of the conditioning.  Strangely, we do not have this problem with Orthodox Christians.  But for most Westerners, you are so scared to die.  Are you prepared to go? Then we will step it up!  Some time ago a Western lady physically ran away from the process.  So we had to reverse the process for her.  The most important thing is that you must get over the fear.  Look at all these people here.  They eat ice cream, drink coffee, play around…
Questioner:  It seems this movement is evolving.  Is there an end to what you can teach us?
Bhagavan:  Consciousness is ever evolving.  But as far as we are concerned, once the 64,000 is achieved, we will close shop.  Already you find that we do not go out anywhere.  All that we intend to do is offer this to the 64,000.  Then we will just have a good time here.  It is for you people to do whatever you want.  I am not a messiah to transform mankind.  I have prepared a few people to put them in a state.  They will prepare the 64,000 and put them in a state.  Then you will be able to do this to humanity.  Kalki?  I am not Kalki.  Kalki is all the Hindu gods put together.  It is not one person but a huge number of people who will transform humanity.  So also the Christ, Imam Mehdi, Maitreya.  The Kalki, or Christ, or Maitreya who comes into you – it will be up to him then – we will just close shop here and have a good time!
Questioner:  Who is God and how does God experience himself?
Bhagavan:  God is the antaryamin.  How he expresses himself is up to you.  God is specific to you.  Someone else’s antaryamin has a different relationship with you. Only a friendly person who is kind and compassionate to others will have an antaryamin who is friendly, kind and compassionate.  If you want a God who will answer prayers fast, you better do the same to others.  The antaryamin can be formless or it can appear as Christ, Krishna, Maitreya, etc.  If you need 10 or 12 commandments, if you have been commanding people, then you will have that kind of God.  Your antaryamin could very well come out and become external to you.  A non-physical antaryamin can move through your being, move your hand or your body. It an also be physical, as with many people in India.  It is the antaryamin that takes you to your past lives and to other lokas, it is this that performs the brain surgery.  It can take a hoodlum and make him loving and kind; it can take a dull person and make him into a genius.  You must become one with a divine being, a higher consciousness.  Ramana had Shiva inside him.  To become one with the antaryamin is to become one with God.  So the first few days, build up a good relationship with your antaryamin. If you this is all hypnosis or imagination or hallucination, the process will stop. It is an affront to the antaryamin.  Our job is to provide the necessary power to hook up to your antaryamin.  The rest is up to you!