Conversation with Bhagavan
Kiara Windrider, October 8 2004
This is the transcript
of a conversation I had with Bhagavan on
October 8, 2004 in Golden City. It
addresses issues of personal and global
enlightenment through a process known as
the ďdeekshaĒ, which is an electrical
transmission of divine energy resulting
in neurobiological changes in the brain
leading to states of enlightenment. It
also covers questions about
environmental catastrophes and earth
changes, human death, and the advent of
the long awaited Golden Age.
Namaste Bhagavan, I am so grateful for
your presence on this earth and in my
life, and for the gift of enlightenment
that you have given to me, and are
giving to the world. For myself, I can
say that there really seems like there
is no individual self left, that who I
am is simply the universe expressing
through this body, experiencing itself
moment to moment in a very fresh way. It
seems like there is an emptiness here,
an emptiness that is at the same time
For the readers of my book and for
people watching this video, I would
first like to ask you to introduce
Well, I am known in India as Bhagavan. I
am an avatar, an avatar who is
specifically concerned about
enlightening people and of course, also
fulfilling their desires. I have been
around for the past nearly 12 years or
so. We have millions of followers, and a
few thousand now who are enlightened. We
can say that there is some kind of
spiritual renaissance going on in the
country here. We have been able to
address all sections of society, men and
women, young and old, rich and poor.
There is now a tremendous seeking after
enlightenment, a great passion now among
large numbers of people to become
enlightened, and so I have come to be
considered as an avatar for
Bhagavan, for those may not be familiar
with the term avatar, how would you
In India, we have this concept of the
avatar. An avatar could be a musical
avatar, a mathematical avatar, a
political avatar, or a spiritual avatar.
An avatar is someone who comes with a
specific mission on the planet and who
is divinely inspired, and through whom
divine energies flow. Avatars can come
in every field of human activity. Many
seem to think it is can only pertain to
spiritual work, but it isnít so. But I
happen to be a spiritual avatar.
You and Amma, your wife, are both
Yes we are both avatars, like two sides
of the same coin. We have excellent
understanding and communication, and
sometimes we donít even have to talk to
know whatís going on. We work like one
being when it comes to enlightenment and
Bhagavan, there have been so many
avatars in human history, who have come
and given different teachings, and
helped to maybe enlighten a few people.
What makes you so different?
Well, I think it is not about my being
different. I think I have come at a
different time. The other avatars
prepared people for enlightenment, for
liberation, but could not give it to
them, not because they were not capable
of giving it, but because the times were
not ready for that. So I come at a time
when earthís energies have changed, and
man is very receptive, and it is
possible to give him enlightenment. So
my advantage is that I have come at the
right time, a time when it is possible
to give it to man.
Does this have something to do with our
movement into the Golden Age?
It definitely has to do with the
emergence of the Golden Age. In India
it is believed that the Kali Yuga
started sometime around 3002 BC and is
supposed to have ended in 2002 AD. By
2003 we are right into the Golden Age.
Thatís why we began giving enlightenment
publicly in the year 2003.
So itís only been one year.
Itís only been one year.
How do you give enlightenment? How is it
possible to give enlightenment?
Ah yes. Basically it is through the
process of what is called Ďdeekshaí, an
electrical energy which transfers
through some kind of a hole in the mind
of man. We believe that the mind of man
is like a wall, which divides man from
God. The deeksha is an electrical
energy which makes a hole in this wall,
which we call the mind. Once that
happens, then God and man can come to
relate with each other. The way they
relate has to do with his background,
his conditioning, his aspirations, his
education, so many factors. But it is
God who gives enlightenment, whether you
call it God or cosmic consciousness or
nature, call it what you wantÖ So that
takes over and enlightenment is
delivered through God. He is the one who
delivers. Our job is to give the deeksha
and make a hole in the mind, and then
God does the rest. Itís a very complex
process that only God can do.
Is this something you have been
preparing for a very long time?
Yes, my whole life has been a
preparation for this. Ever since I was a
child, my only concern was how to
liberate man from his suffering. These
were not things that I arrived at
through my own life experience, because
I myself was a child, but rather I was
forced to become concerned about manís
suffering and to work for that. That
is why I am an avatar, because I never
arrived at these conclusions, I was just
led into these things by a higher
energy, a higher force, what you call
the divine energy, or God.
Ever since I was a child I was made to
do certain practices, which I did for
many years. So that has given me the
ability. So mostly I donít give deekshas.
I let others give deeksha. I am more
like a powerhouse, and the others are
like step down transformers who can
receive this energy and pass it on to
people. So my function is to remain as a
powerhouse for some time. So this is
how deeksha is given and how
enlightenment or God realization occurs.
So when you give deeksha you speak of
this deeksha as a neurobiological
process that affects the brain?
Yes, when we give deeksha it is like the
passing on of an electrical energy that
affects the brain, the spinal cord, and
what we call the ductless glands or the
Ďchakrasí. So most of the work is being
done on the frontal lobes and the
parietal lobes of the brain. There is
an activation of the frontal lobes, and
a deactivation of the parietal lobes,
plus some energies are sent into the
ductless glands to reactivate these
chakras. So all this in turn produces a
hole in the mind, and a link is
established between God and man.
Thereafter what happens is Godís work.
Up to then, of course, we can do certain
Right. So when you speak about losing
the Ďselfí, thatís what happens when you
make this hole in the wall.
When you make the hole in the wall, then
God can take over, and then he works on
the senses, liberating the senses from
the mind, from the clutches of the
mind. When that happens you lose your
Ďselfí. That part of the work happens
through God himself. As he is the
creator, He works like a computer to
rearrange the brain, and He takes over.
So each personís enlightenment is
absolutely unique then.
Itís absolutely unique. It depends on
his background, his conditioning, what
happened in his childhood, his own
seeking, his religious conditioning. So
all these things are involved.
Bhagavan, many many people have been
seeking for many many lifetimes, and
been through all kinds of practices and
sadhanas and rituals and ceremonies and
traditions, and many times they feel
they have only been able to go so far,
and none have been able to actually
cross over into enlightenment. So how is
When I look at a person, I donít see him
as a first-timer. I only see millions
of years behind him. I believe that all
of humanity has finished all the work
they need to do. I think everybody has
been well prepared through so many
lives. And therefore now is the time
to get it. All the hard work has been
done. I believe everybody has done the
hard work, and now the fruit is there to
Yes, it must be such a relief for many
people to hear that.
Yes, thatís why I see everyone as a
seeker, everybody has done their sadhana,
everybody is ready. I cannot say so and
so is not ready.
So thereís no one who is not a seeker?
There is no one who is not a seeker.
They could be seeking in different waysÖ
They could be seeking without even
knowing they are seeking.
Without knowing they are seekingÖ
So as this work progresses, is it
possible that more and more people will
become enlightened who have no idea
about enlightenment, who have never been
seeking enlightenment, it will simply
Yes, what is likely to happen is that
there are now people who are enlightened
who are able to give deekshas to people
who are able to get into good states.
But very soon, maybe a few months from
now, those who will receive deeksha from
them will naturally become enlightened.
And not only that, they will be able to
give deeksha to others and make them
enlightened. This process will continue
for some time. There will come a time
when without deeksha the whole of
mankind is going to make it. Once the
critical level is reached there is going
to be a spontaneous occurrence across
What will this look like in practical
In practical terms the world will will
look very different. We will not be able
to talk about me being an Indian or you
being an American or somebody else being
an African. we cannot talk in terms of
races and nationalities, or I canít say
Iím a Hindu, Iím a Christian, Iím a
So all these things which divide man
will just disappear. All these things
will just drop off. There will be no
need for these things. All these
divisions will not exist. We will become
just human beings. We will become one
family. Itís not a concept, this will
just happen. This is when we will truly
become humans. But as long as we are
going to define ourselves in terms of
nationalities, religions, cultures,
race, we will still continue to be
tribal and very primitive. We are
becoming human now. It will definitely
What about people who are still into
power, control, and ego games, and who
may not want to get enlightened?
Yes, people who stubbornly resist
enlightenment will also naturally become
enlightened. At that point there wonít
be any resisting it. Nobody can say ďI
will stay out of enlightenmentĒ. That is
not possible. Itís a natural
occurrence. Itís human evolution. So
all these power games and ego games will
just stop. You can just not do it
anymore. The brain will function
Thatís amazing. So even the people who
are consciously and adamantly refusing
to even think about sharing the earth
with other people, who are trying to
control the resources of the earth and
creating environmental devastation for
their own benefit, whether companies,
governments, businesses, or individuals,
this will all change?
Yes, all this will dramatically change.
Man will soon realize that the earth is
a living organism, he depends on it like
his Mother, so no one will even think of
harming the earth. This wonít take some
kind of education; it will be a natural
happening. This is what will happen. So
we are going to see a very different
earth, a very different world. I am not
speculating. I am just speaking very
directly from the visions thousands of
people have had in the last decade from
Bhagavan there are many scientists who
predict, based on what is happening on
the planet today Ė global warming,
possible ice age coming, the quality of
air and water, and so on Ė that there
could be a major environmental
catastrophe, and that we might even end
up wiping out all life on the planet.
How can you be so sure that there will
be a planetary enlightenment?
The predictions are quite true, but what
they are not aware of is that, as we
have seen in our visions, a great
transformation is sweeping across the
planet which will in turn prevent these
things from happening. Already we are
seeing signs of people becoming
enlightened, and how it affects the
environment. We are able to see this on
a very small scale. And from that we
are able to predict that on a global
scale this transformation is going to
occur. This is what is going to save the
earth. If that does not happen, then
what the scientists are predicting could
very well come true.
So an example could be that if a village
gets enlightened, and there has been a
drought for the past few years, then the
The monsoons will come, yes. It is
happening in many places in India. We
are seeing it.
So similarly when there are predictions
of major earthquakes, volcanic activity,
pole shifts even, then as people become
enlightened, this will alter our
relationship with the earthÖ
We could save the earth. That is why we
are telling people ďthe house is on
fire, let us move faster, let us hurry
Yes, this is a very important message
for people to hear. There are so many
people in despair and hopelessness, so
many good people who have given up any
kind of future for the earth because of
what they see with their outer eyes.
Yes, but there is no need for them to
lose hope. Because things are going to
change dramatically. In a very
unexpected way things are going to
Yes, I am so happy to hear that. As
people become enlightened, and as the
planet becomes enlightened as a
collective, how will that change the
physical quality of the earth?
There is a very close correlation
between human consciousness and the
physical process occurring on the
planet. So the moment that conflict
levels are reduced in human
consciousness, you will find dramatic
changes at the earth level also. So you
will find a reduction of insects and
pests in the crops, and nature behaving
in a much better way without the need
for chemicals. All these things are a
natural consequence of the reduction of
conflict in human consciousness. There
is such a close correlation between the
two. This also we are seeing on a small
scale at the village level.
So as humans become enlightened, then
our relationship with the environment
will change, species that have become
extinct will come back, the oceans will
become depolluted, and so on.
Yes, we have seen remarkable things
happening on a small scale, so we
believe it can happen on a large scale
also. So thatís why we are so confident
that these things will happen.
Otherwise there seems to be no hope in
living at all.
Yes, otherwise there doesnít seem to be
any point in going on. Bhagavan, one
question I have is about yours and
Ammaís consciousness which pervades the
deeksha. How is it possible with so many
people receiving the deeksha now that
you are able to track whatís happening
with everybody individually?
We actually function on two levels.
When I am having this conversation with
you, certain things are switched off so
that I can hold this meaningful
conversation. But at other times the
switches are on and we can experience a
lot of human beings at once and what is
going on in their minds and their
consciousness, and we can interfere and
do many things. That dimension is not
known to man. I am not claiming this as
something special to me, because
whatever I am experiencing I believe in
making others also experience, and there
are also others now at that level who
can similarly experience a few hundred
beings at the same time. This is a
faculty that is very natural to man and
will start to open up in many people. To
me it happens very naturally. Because of
what happened to me in my early life I
can focus on a 100,000-strong crowd and
go into them and do many things.
So you are able to go into the
Yes, it happens very easily and very
naturally. And others too are now able
to do it to some extent. Soon it will
start happening in a bigger way.
And thatís very much a part of
Thatís very much a part of
enlightenment, in fact many things will
start happening after enlightenment. We
are not talking very much about it
because it is going to happen very
naturally. Enlightenment is not going to
stop at just being aware of things, or
just being joyful or being in bliss.
There is a lot more to it. But these
will follow in the months coming.
One question which may sound a little
strange, how is your consciousness as an
avatar different from the consciousness
of someone who gets enlightened?
At this point in time the only
difference could be in the intensity of
the awareness or the intensity of the
bliss, but otherwise there is no basic
fundamental difference. But as these
nadis open up and become stronger, his
awareness levels will also increase and
the gap will soon close. But it may
take a little time. But fundamentally
there is no difference. Except I do
have some additional facilities. Like I
can see what is going on in some other
place, whatís happening in somebodyís
mind, how I can help them. I can really
interfere in helping their life by
taking up a strong sankalpa, a strong
wish. These too people will be able to
acquire in the course of time. Already a
few of them have acquired this in small
So as people deepen into their
enlightenment, these will be things that
anyone is capable of?
Yes, as your concern for people grows,
these things naturally start happening.
Itís all a matter of how concerned you
are abot others. As you go deeper and
deeper into enlightenment your concern
also increases. Along with this, these
things also start happening.
Yes, seems as if an entirely new species
Yes, itís more like that, an entirely
new species is emerging.
Bhagavan, there are so many different
religions in the world today. What is
your attitude towards all the different
I believe that different religions are
required to handle the different needs
of people. I have seen people sometimes
require a particular religion to handle
a particular problem, or their
background needs the input of a
particular religion. I personally have
never had any difficulty with people of
any faith. Because the deeksha is a
neutral thing and the deeksha only
activates a certain area of the brain or
deactivates it, and the person only
discovers what his religion taught him.
So he discovers the truths of his own
faith. What I do or teach is not a new
faith or religion, it is not anything
new at all, it merely helps you to
discover what you have been seeking all
these years. So I personally have no
conflict with the people of any faith.
So once people are enlightened, the
Muslim will experience his unity with
Allah, the Christian will experience
himself a Christ, a Buddhist will
experience Buddha consciousness, and so
And so on. There is absolutely no
conflict at all. Thatís why I am saying
that soon there will be no divisions of
man, saying I belong to this religion or
that religion, you know, we are going to
become one family. This is going to be
There is this beautiful song by John
Lennon where he speaks of that.
Yes, and we are seeing this happening,
especially in the areas where we are
working, we are seeing it happening.
Yes, it seems that the differences
between religions have only to do with
ego, nothing to do with the essence of
Bhagavan, you speak of different stages,
different aspects of enlightenment. You
speak of the flowering of the heart, you
speak of the witness consciousness, you
speak about oneness. Could you describe
this in more detail?
Yes, the first thing that often happens
in the process of enlightenment is the
flowering of the heart. You for the
first time discover real compassion,
real love for human beings. But as this
becomes deeper you lose a sense of
separateness. Even at this point we
really do not call you fully
enlightened. We call you fully
enlightened only when you are
experiencing reality as it is. To
experience reality as it is these are
some kinds of pre-requisites. Very
rarely it happens suddenly in a big way.
So these may be called stages of
enlightenment. Enlightenment itself is
experiencing reality as it is.
Is that equivalent to oneness?
It is equivalent to oneness. But of
course, oneness itself just takes off
from there and finally becomes oneness
with God, or oneness with cosmic
consciousness. It is the ultimate
oneness. But that could be difficult for
some people, to say that man and God
could become one. That some people may
not accept, but it is a reality that
people can become one with God.
You speak of designing your own God.
What do you mean by that?
When I speak of designing your own God I
do not mean that you create your own
God. God is someone who creates you, and
you do not create God. But the way he is
going to treat you and the way he is
going to conduct himself with you
depends on how you expect him to conduct
himself with you. This is taken from
the Hindu concept of Ďbhakta paradeenaí,
that God is dependent on the devotee. So
if you want him to be a friend he
behaves like a friend. If you want him
to behave like a mother, he behaves like
a mother. So it is in your hands to
design the way he is going to behave
with you. Thatís how I say you design
your own God.
So certain aspects, certain views of God
will make it easier to actually receive
Yes, it can be very easy to receive this
gift. If your concept of God is a very
friendly one then you donít even have to
pray. You just ask it and he gives it
to you. Thousands of people have this
kind of relationship. I am only talking
about when people have actually achieved
it, not before that. So people have made
God their friend, a very friendly God.
This includes, Christians, Muslims,
Hindus, people of all faiths.
And God is masculine as well as
God is masculine as well as feminine, or
light or formless. Many have only a
formless God. Many have it as just
light. Some even have him as both male
and female. Each person has complete
freedom. Itís the individualís choice.
You also speak of designing your own
Your own enlightenment, yes, like for
example, you can design how much of
heart you want, or how much of oneness
you want, or how much of experiencing
your reality you want. Again it
depends on your passion, the kind of
books you have read, the kind of seeking
you have had.
So itís really the beginning of a
lifelong journey or explorationÖ
Exploration, yes. And you can change it
also, in the course of time, you can
change it. In practice we find that
people achieve different states of
What determines what state of
enlightenment a person receives? Does it
have to do with karmic factors or does
it have to do with your belief systems?
It has a lot to do with your belief
systems, closely followed by your
karma. Very often it has to do with
your belief systems, the kind of
conditioning you have gone through.
But you can change it if you want to at
some point in time, if you feel like it.
So thatís why I am saying you can design
your God, and you can design your
Bhagavan, I remember when I was young I
was very fascinated by the life and
teachings of Jesus, and always wondered
what it would be like to be born in his
times, to be one of his disciples, when
he sent them out to go heal the sick and
relieve suffering. What is fascinating
to me now is that the same kinds of
miracles, the same kinds of healings are
beginning to happening now with the
deekshas and with other circumstances.
Would you like to say something about
Yes, this is the continuation of that
work that Christ left behind. This
should have happened in fact 2000 years
ago, this transformation of man, but for
some reason it got aborted. But now the
same thing has come back. So in the
deekshas people are getting in touch
with Christ consciousness, especially in
the west. They are discovering the same
consciousness which Christ was trying to
give them. It is no different from
that. In fact I would say that would be
true Christianity, as Christ intended it
Yes, Christ said ďI and the Father are
So from that consciousness, miracles are
possible. So as people experience the
same consciousness today the same
miracles are being evident.
You mention that here are certain
miracles taking place in Orissa.
Yes there is a place in Orissa, called
Gutagaon, where thousands of people
come, and get healed. There is another
place called Bhimavaram where surgeries
are done on them as they come and lie
down in front of the srimurti.
Like miracle surgeries. Like psychic
Miracle surgeries, yes. More and more
this will be happening around the
country and around the world. These are
not miracles that I go and do, they are
spontaneous miracles occurring around
the planet. I personally do not do any
miracles like that. I am not a miracle
worker in that sense.
But you train people to become miracle
Yes, around them these miracles happen.
So itís really cosmic consciousness that
allows the miracles to take place. So
the fact that is happening more and
more, and that enlightenment is
happening more and more, you have spoken
about this in relationship to what you
have called the Ďmorphogenetic fieldsí.
Could you describe that phenomenon?
Yes, for example this phenomenon is
about 12 years old, and we have found
that at certain intervals it becomes
more powerful. So what we have
discovered is that the more people get
that state it becomes easier for other
people get that state, whether it is in
connection with healings or the
enlightened state or other states of
consciousness. We find that people who
come later are getting it more easily
and much faster. So obviously there is
a field which is absorbing all this
transformation and able to transfer it
to others much faster. Thatís how the
morphogenetic fields are really
helping. We can see it in action.
There is a psychologist in America,
David Hawkins. And he has devised a
scale of consciousness from 0 to 1000.
At the bottom end of the scale are
emotions like guilt, shame, fear,
whereas on the upper end you have love
and joy and enlightenment. What he says
is that one person who is holding the
state of joy or love or enlightenment
can actually counterbalance thousands or
even millions of people who are holding
the states of guilt, shame and fear that
so many people are stuck in. So what he
says is that this is also a
morphogenetic field and what is taking
place is that because it doesnít take a
large number of people, as long as they
are high on the consciousness scale,
they can actually create a huge wave of
Yes thatís very true. That is the
purpose of the sages and saints; they
have to counterbalance the other
negative energies. That is why we
believe that once we have 64,000 people,
that will be enough for transforming the
whole of mankind.
Somehow that seems to be the necessary
number for making this happen very
spontaneouslyÖ These are factors which
have been revealed to us. We donít fully
understand the dynamics, but these were
revealed to us. We go on the basis of
revelation. It is not just something
that comes to one person, but if it is
something that happens to many people
over a long period of time, that is what
we accept as revelation. That becomes
our road map.
How long will it take to get 64,000
It could take anywhere from one year to
6 years. It can happen very fast also.
It depends on how quickly people
respond. It could happen in a few months
time also. So we canít really specify
the time here. It can happen very fast,
or it can take a little more time.
So now you are training people to give
deekshas themselves, and this will be a
part of this. They will move out across
the earth and they will begin to give
deekshas and make people enlightened,
and then eventually, like you said, it
will happen through a touch, a glance, a
It could happen very very fast. Letís
say people read your book that could be
some kind of deeksha. Or they can flock
to your talks or programs where you are
giving deeksha, and it could happen very
very fast. It can happen very fast
really. People must be very serious.
Thatís all that is required.
I know some musicians who have gone
through the deeksha training, and so as
they perform the music, then that itself
could be a deeksha.
Yes. And one thing likely to happen, as
people read your book, they could also
get some kind of deeksha. Thatís also
very much possible.
I notice that when I was writing the
book it was flowing through in such an
amazing fashion, the entire book was
written in 10 days. In fact, I felt your
presence coming through so strongly. So
I am sure it is a deeksha.
Yes, it is more like our architect who
designed our Oneness Temple. It just
flowed through him, and in no time at
all it was ready. It was just lying
You said about the Oneness Temple, that
when people go in to worship, people can
come in from any religious faith, but
what they will see is a reflection of
their own God.
Yes, it is a very strange temple, and
there will be a strange throne there, an
empty throne. And when people from any
faith will come and worship they will
see their God or a sign of their Godís
presence on the throne. It will only be
visible to them. They can pray in any
fashion they want. And they will see
their God on the throne. Thatís what is
so unique about it.
So it is an inner revelation. It also
reminds me of the phenomenon that is
growing known as the Ďphala deekshaí.
What actually happens?
In phala deeksha the God whom they
worship appears before them. They could
have a dialogue with that God and ask
them for whatever they want or any
clarifications they need about their
life. It is a great dialogue between
man and God. And God may grant them
their wish, and in case he is not
granting it he will give them a reason
why he is not granting it. So it is a
one to one relationship between man and
God. So he gets what he wants.
So it is no longer dependent on faith.
It is a real life experience.
It is a real life experience. It does
not depend on your faith.
It shows the change in the relationship
between man and God.
Yes. There is a change. Something very
epochal is happening here. There is a
definite change. God is coming very
close to man. And man too. It is a
lost relationship. They were supposed to
be very close in the last Golden Age.
They are supposed to have walked and
talked together, you know. Then there
was a strange alienation between man and
God. And it generated in subsequent
yugas. So now that the Golden Age is
back, man and God have to come together.
They become friends again. Thatís it.
I see the veils are beginning to thin
between the dimensions and lokas. One
question that it brings up for me is the
idea of death, because so many people
are afraid to die, especially when they
are conditioned by beliefs about hell,
if they have done something bad, or even
believe that they have done something
bad, that they will go to hell. What
actually happens to people as they make
What happens is that as people die and
they are very scared of hell or of being
judged by God, then very often they do
not continue their journey. They get
stuck in the earth sphere as earthbound
spirits. That is an unfortunate thing
that is happening. If people of
different faiths do the necessary
rituals and ceremonies then it is
definitely possible to help them. But
more important would be to make them
talk to God and realize that God is very
friendly and is not going to stand in
judgment over them. But this is going to
require a shift in manís thinking. I
think thatís the best way to liberate
man. He has to get friendly with his
God, otherwise there is needless
So the actual passage of death is very
beautiful and peaceful?
Itís very very beautiful. The process
of dying is a very beautiful process.
But for most people, it takes about
three days to realize they are dead.
Somehow it takes that much time. Thatís
why people have to go through ceremonies
to help them realize they are dead and
then to prepare them for their journey
to meet God. So if that can take place
it is very easy. But if on the other
hand fear is put into the person they
will hang around. Then they will have to
So there are spirit helpers who can
assist them to go to the appropriate
Yes, thatís why when people come to us
we work with them to help their
ancestors, their parents and
grandparents to be cleared. And once
these people move away from the earth
sphere the person can actually feel the
liberation, they will feel a lightness.
Itís not something to be believed in,
but it can be experienced.
Bhagavan, what about people who have
died? When global enlightenment
happens, will they also beÖ
They will be spontaneously enlightened.
Itís not only for the living but also
for the dead.
So then they can choose to reincarnate
again on this earth or somewhere else?
Itís up to them whether they want
reincarnate on the earth sphere, or some
other sphere, or some other planet.
Itís all up to them. Such is the
freedom given to man.
Bhagavan, there are many people who have
been longing their whole life for love,
who feel like this has eluded them, who
are so afraid to love, who are so afraid
to receive love, what would you say to
people like that?
Yes, I think they will soon be soaked
and bathed in love. I think there will
soon be spontaneous occurrences of this.
Before enlightenment occurs people will
have discovered love, I think. And that
will soon be followed by enlightenment
itself. And that will be followed by
oneness with God. I think hat will be
So enlightenment, God-realization, loveÖ
Enlightenment, God-realization, love all
these things are going to happen, people
wonít have to try and get there, these
will just spontaneously happen.
I think thatís the biggest gift that you
are offering, that there is no striving
necessary, in fact the striving itself
can be a block, an obstacle to receiving
it, because then the mind feels like it
can do something.
Like it can do something, yes. The poor
mind cannot do anything, it is conflict
ridden, it is in opposition with itself,
it is repetitive in nature, it is too
ancient. So really it canít do much.
It has to realize it is helpless and
give up. Thatís when grace can take
You speak about the mind as the ancient
mind. What do you imply by that?
By that I imply that basically its
structure has not changed. That fear is
at the core of the human mind. Earlier
it could have been the fear of a tiger
or lion; today it is the fear of the
stock market or the fear of losing your
job. Then you were very anxious abut the
weather, now you are anxious about your
job or other things. The same craving is
there, the same desires are there. The
objects of desire have changed but the
desire to be something else is still
there. You see, fundamentally man has
not changed, thatís why I call the mind
very ancient. Only the objects have
changed, the objects of craving, the
objects of fear, the objects of anxiety,
they have changed.
But fundamentally it is the same old
mind, living continuously in fear,
living continuously in becoming, moving
from where you are to where you want to
be. It does not stay put. It is not
where it should be. It mainly lives in
fear. And basically there is no change
in man. So I do not see any difference
between Homo sapiens and Neanderthal
man. We have had limited experience of
people who have lived earlier, and we
see that fundamentally they are the
So when we are enlightened we can leave
this mind behind.
You can leave this mind behind, yes. You
can become completely free of the mind.
I am talking of a transformation where
you become free of the mind. I am not
focusing so much on a transformation
within the mind. That the psychologists
and the philosophers can do. And they
are doing a fairly good job. So I donít
have to waste time on that. But I am
talking of becoming free of the mind
Bhagavan, do you have any plans to
travel around the world?
Certainly not in the near future. Maybe
sometime, itís very possible. I donít
really need to travel. I can do my work
from wherever I am.
Do you feel that at some point your work
will be over?
Most certainly, yes. The moment the
world is enlightened, my work is over.
The moment humanity becomes one
humanity, one complete humanity, and all
the divisions have ceased, my work is
over. I am here to remove all divisions
in whatever form they might exist.
So Bhagavan would you like to say any
final words to readers of this book, or
to people watching this video?
I would like to tell them that though
humanity faces a lot of obstacles, and
danger seems to be lurking around the
corner, I would like to tell them that
redemption is around the corner, that we
are going to make it!
Bhagavan, I am so grateful to be in your
presence, and to know that this
redemption is around the corner. I am
sure many many people around the world
echo my sentiments, just to know that
there is hope and that there is a plan,
that we are entering into a Golden Age,
and that the deeksha is possible now,
that it can actually transform peopleís
lives so completely and so beautifully
in a way that was never possible before.
So please accept my heartfelt gratitude.
It has been so nice talking to you.
Thank you. Namaste.