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Conversation with Bhagavan

by Kiara Windrider, October 8 2004

This is the transcript of a conversation I had with Bhagavan on October 8, 2004 in Golden City.   It addresses issues of personal and global enlightenment through a process known as the “deeksha”, which is an electrical transmission of divine energy resulting in neurobiological changes in the brain leading to states of enlightenment.  It also covers questions about environmental catastrophes and earth changes, human death, and the advent of the long awaited Golden Age.


Namaste Bhagavan, I am so grateful for your presence on this earth and in my life, and for the gift of enlightenment that you have given to me, and are giving to the world.  For myself, I can say that  there really seems like there is no individual self left, that who I am is simply the universe expressing through this body, experiencing itself moment to moment in a very fresh way. It seems like there is an emptiness here, an emptiness that is at the same time very full… 

For the readers of my book and for people watching this video, I would first like to ask you to introduce yourself…

Well, I am known in India as Bhagavan. I am an avatar, an avatar who is specifically concerned about enlightening people and of course, also fulfilling their desires. I have been around for the past nearly 12 years or so. We have millions of followers, and a few thousand now who are enlightened. We can say that there is some kind of spiritual renaissance going on in the country here. We have been able to address all sections of society, men and women, young and old, rich and poor. There is now a tremendous seeking after enlightenment, a great passion now among large numbers of people to become enlightened, and so I have come to be considered as an avatar for enlightenment.

Bhagavan, for those may not be familiar with the term avatar, how would you define it?

In India, we have this concept of the avatar. An avatar could be a musical avatar, a mathematical avatar, a political avatar, or a spiritual avatar. An avatar is someone who comes with a specific mission on the planet and who is divinely inspired, and through whom divine energies flow.  Avatars can come in every field of human activity. Many seem to think it is can only pertain to spiritual work, but it isn’t so. But I happen to be a spiritual avatar.

You and Amma, your wife, are both avatars?

Yes we are both avatars, like two sides of the same coin.  We have excellent understanding and communication, and sometimes we don’t even have to talk to know what’s going on.  We work like one being when it comes to enlightenment and helping people.

Bhagavan, there have been so many avatars in human history, who have come and given different teachings, and helped to maybe enlighten a few people.  What makes you so different?

Well, I think it is not about my being different. I think I have come at a different time.  The other avatars prepared people for enlightenment, for liberation, but could not give it to them, not because they were not capable of giving it, but because the times were not ready for that.  So I come at a time when earth’s energies have changed, and man is very receptive, and it is possible to give him enlightenment. So my advantage is that I have come at the right time, a time when it is possible to give it to man.

Does this have something to do with our movement into the Golden Age?

It definitely has to do with the emergence of the Golden Age.  In India it is believed that the Kali Yuga started sometime around 3002 BC and is supposed to have ended in 2002 AD. By 2003 we are right into the Golden Age.  That’s why we began giving enlightenment publicly in the year 2003.

So it’s only been one year.

It’s only been one year.

How do you give enlightenment? How is it possible to give enlightenment?

Ah yes. Basically it is through the process of what is called ‘deeksha’, an electrical energy which transfers through some kind of a hole in the mind of man.  We believe that the mind of man is like a wall, which divides man from God.  The deeksha is an electrical energy which makes a hole in this wall, which we call the mind.  Once that happens, then God and man can come to relate with each other.   The way they relate has to do with his background, his conditioning, his aspirations, his education, so many factors.  But it is God who gives enlightenment, whether you call it God or cosmic consciousness or nature, call it what you want… So that takes over and enlightenment is delivered through God. He is the one who delivers. Our job is to give the deeksha and make a hole in the mind, and then God does the rest.  It’s a very complex process that only God can do.

Is this something you have been preparing for a very long time?

Yes, my whole life has been a preparation for this. Ever since I was a child, my only concern was how to liberate man from his suffering.  These were not things that I arrived at through my own life experience, because I myself was a child, but rather I was forced to become concerned about man’s suffering and to work for that.   That is why I am an avatar, because I never arrived at these conclusions, I was just led into these things by a higher energy, a higher force, what you call the divine energy, or God. 

Ever since I was a child I was made to do certain practices, which I did for many years.   So that has given me the ability. So mostly I don’t give deekshas. I let others give deeksha.  I am more like a powerhouse, and the others are like step down transformers who can receive this energy and pass it on to people. So my function is to remain as a powerhouse for some time.  So this is how deeksha is given and how enlightenment or God realization occurs.

So when you give deeksha you speak of this deeksha as a neurobiological process that affects the brain?

Yes, when we give deeksha it is like the passing on of an electrical energy that affects the brain, the spinal cord, and what we call the ductless glands or the ‘chakras’.  So most of the work is being done on the frontal lobes and the parietal lobes of the brain.  There is an activation of the frontal lobes, and a deactivation of the parietal lobes, plus some energies are sent into the ductless glands to reactivate these chakras.  So all this in turn produces a hole in the mind, and a link is established between God and man.  Thereafter what happens is God’s work. Up to then, of course, we can do certain things.

Right.  So when you speak about losing the ‘self’, that’s what happens when you make this hole in the wall.

When you make the hole in the wall, then God can take over, and then he works on the senses, liberating the senses from the mind, from the clutches of the mind.  When that happens you lose your ‘self’. That part of the work happens through God himself.  As he is the creator, He works like a computer to rearrange the brain, and He takes over.

So each person’s enlightenment is absolutely unique then.

It’s absolutely unique.  It depends on his background, his conditioning, what happened in his childhood, his own seeking, his religious conditioning. So all these things are involved.

Bhagavan, many many people have been seeking for many many lifetimes, and been through all kinds of practices and sadhanas and rituals and ceremonies and traditions, and many times they feel they have only been able to go so far, and none have been able to actually cross over into enlightenment. So how is this different?

When I look at a person, I don’t see him as a first-timer.  I only see millions of years behind him.  I believe that all of humanity has finished all the work they need to do.  I think everybody has been well prepared through so many lives.   And therefore now is the time to get it.  All the hard work has been done.  I believe everybody has done the hard work, and now the fruit is there to be had.

Yes, it must be such a relief for many people to hear that.

Yes, that’s why I see everyone as a seeker, everybody has done their sadhana, everybody is ready. I cannot say so and so is not ready.

So there’s no one who is not a seeker?

There is no one who is not a seeker. They could be seeking in different ways…

They could be seeking without even knowing they are seeking.

Without knowing they are seeking…

So as this work progresses, is it possible that more and more people will become enlightened who have no idea about enlightenment, who have never been seeking enlightenment, it will simply just happen?

Yes, what is likely to happen is that there are now people who are enlightened who are able to give deekshas to people who are able to get into good states.  But very soon, maybe a few months from now, those who will receive deeksha from them will naturally become enlightened.  And not only that, they will be able to give deeksha to others and make them enlightened.  This process will continue for some time.  There will come a time when without deeksha the whole of mankind is going to make it.  Once the critical level is reached there is going to be a spontaneous occurrence across the planet. 

What will this look like in practical terms?

In practical terms the world will will look very different. We will not be able to talk about me being an Indian or you being an American or somebody else being an African. we cannot talk in terms of races and nationalities, or I can’t say I’m a Hindu, I’m a Christian, I’m a Muslim. 

So all these things which divide man will just disappear. All these things will just drop off. There will be no need for these things. All these divisions will not exist. We will become just human beings.  We will become one family.  It’s not a concept, this will just happen. This is when we will truly become humans.  But as long as we are going to define ourselves in terms of nationalities, religions, cultures, race, we will still continue to be tribal and very primitive.  We are becoming human now.  It will definitely happen.

What about people who are still into power, control, and ego games, and who may not want to get enlightened?

Yes, people who stubbornly resist enlightenment will also naturally become enlightened.  At that point there won’t be any resisting it.  Nobody can say “I will stay out of enlightenment”. That is not possible.  It’s a natural occurrence. It’s human evolution.  So all these power games and ego games will just stop. You can just not do it anymore. The brain will function differently.

That’s amazing.  So even the people who are consciously and adamantly refusing to even think about sharing the earth with other people, who are trying to control the resources of the earth and creating environmental devastation for their own benefit, whether companies, governments, businesses, or individuals, this will all change?

Yes, all this will dramatically change.  Man will soon realize that the earth is a living organism, he depends on it like his Mother, so no one will even think of harming the earth. This won’t take some kind of education; it will be a natural happening. This is what will happen. So we are going to see a very different earth, a very different world. I am not speculating. I am just speaking very directly from the visions thousands of people have had in the last decade from various continents.

Bhagavan there are many scientists who predict, based on what is happening on the planet today – global warming, possible ice age coming, the quality of air and water, and so on –  that there could be a major environmental catastrophe, and that we might even end up wiping out all life on the planet.  How can you be so sure that there will be a planetary enlightenment?

The predictions are quite true, but what they are not aware of is that, as we have seen in our visions, a great transformation is sweeping across the planet which will in turn prevent these things from happening. Already we are seeing signs of people becoming enlightened, and how it affects the environment.  We are able to see this on a very small scale.   And from that we are able to predict that on a global scale this transformation is going to occur. This is what is going to save the earth.  If that does not happen, then what the scientists are predicting could very well come true.

So an example could be that if a village gets enlightened, and there has been a drought for the past few years, then the monsoons…

The monsoons will come, yes.  It is happening in many places in India. We are seeing it.

So similarly when there are predictions of major earthquakes, volcanic activity, pole shifts even, then as people become enlightened, this will alter our relationship with the  earth…

We could save the earth.  That is why we are telling people “the house is on fire, let us move faster, let us hurry up”.

Yes, this is a very important message for people to hear. There are so many people in despair and hopelessness, so many good people who have given up any kind of future for the earth because of what they see with their outer eyes.

Yes, but there is no need for them to lose hope.  Because things are going to change dramatically.  In a very unexpected way things are going to change.

Yes, I am so happy to hear that.  As people become enlightened, and as the planet becomes enlightened as a collective, how will that change the physical quality of the earth?

There is a very close correlation between human consciousness and the physical process occurring on the planet.  So the moment that conflict levels are reduced in human consciousness, you will find dramatic changes at the earth level also.  So you will find a reduction of insects and pests in the crops, and nature behaving in a much better way without the need for chemicals.  All these things are a natural consequence of the reduction of conflict in human consciousness. There is such a close correlation between the two.  This also we are seeing on a small scale at the village level.

So as humans become enlightened, then our relationship with the environment will change, species that have become extinct will come back, the oceans will become depolluted, and so on.

Yes, we have seen remarkable things happening on a small scale, so we believe it can happen on a large scale also. So that’s why we are so confident that these things will happen.  Otherwise there seems to be no hope in living at all.

Yes, otherwise there doesn’t seem to be any point in going on.  Bhagavan, one question I have is about yours and Amma’s consciousness which pervades the deeksha. How is it possible with so many people receiving the deeksha now that you are able to track what’s happening with everybody individually?

We actually function on two levels.  When I am having this conversation with you, certain things are switched off so that I can hold this meaningful conversation.  But at other times the switches are on and we can experience a lot of human beings at once and what is going on in their minds and their consciousness, and we can interfere and do many things.  That dimension is not known to man.  I am not claiming this as something special to me, because whatever I am experiencing I believe in making others also experience, and there are also others now at that level who can similarly experience a few hundred beings at the same time.  This is a faculty that is very natural to man and will start to open up in many people. To me it happens very naturally. Because of what happened to me in my early life I can focus on a 100,000-strong crowd and go into them and do many things.

So you are able to go into the collective consciousness…

Yes, it happens very easily and very naturally. And others too are now able to do it to some extent. Soon it will start happening in a bigger way. 

And that’s very much a part of enlightenment.

That’s very much a part of enlightenment, in fact many things will start happening after enlightenment.  We are not talking very much about it because it is going to happen very naturally. Enlightenment is not going to stop at just being aware of things, or just being joyful or being in bliss.  There is a lot more to it.  But these will follow in the months coming.

One question which may sound a little strange, how is your consciousness as an avatar different from the consciousness of someone who gets enlightened?

At this point in time the only difference could be in the intensity of the awareness or the intensity of the bliss, but otherwise there is no basic fundamental difference. But as these nadis open up and become stronger, his awareness levels will also increase and the gap will soon close.  But it may take a little time. But fundamentally there is no difference.  Except I do have some additional facilities. Like I can see what is going on in some other place, what’s happening in somebody’s mind, how I can help them. I can really interfere in helping their life by taking up a strong sankalpa, a strong wish.  These too people will be able to acquire in the course of time. Already a few of them have acquired this in small measure.

So as people deepen into their enlightenment, these will be things that anyone is capable of?

Yes, as your concern for people grows, these things naturally start happening. It’s all a matter of how concerned you are abot others. As you go deeper and deeper into enlightenment your concern also increases.  Along with this, these things also start happening.

Yes, seems as if an entirely new species is arising.

Yes, it’s more like that, an entirely new species is emerging.

Bhagavan, there are so many different religions in the world today.  What is your attitude towards all the different faiths?

I believe that different religions are required to handle the different needs of people. I have seen people sometimes require a particular religion to handle a particular problem, or their background needs the input of a particular religion.  I personally have never had any difficulty with people of any faith. Because the deeksha is a neutral thing and the deeksha only activates a certain area of the brain or deactivates it, and the person only discovers what his religion taught him.  So he discovers the truths of his own faith.  What I do or teach is not a new faith or religion, it is not anything new at all, it merely helps you to discover what you have been seeking all these years. So I personally have no conflict with the people of any faith.

So once people are enlightened, the Muslim will experience his unity with Allah, the Christian will experience himself a Christ, a Buddhist will experience Buddha consciousness, and so on?

And so on. There is absolutely no conflict at all.  That’s why I am saying that soon there will be no divisions of man, saying I belong to this religion or that religion, you know, we are going to become one family.  This is going to be a reality.

There is this beautiful song by John Lennon where he speaks of that.

Yes, and we are seeing this happening, especially in the areas where we are working, we are seeing it happening.

Yes, it seems that the differences between religions have only to do with ego, nothing to do with the essence of that religion.


Bhagavan, you speak of different stages, different aspects of enlightenment.  You speak of the flowering of the heart, you speak of the witness consciousness, you speak about oneness.  Could you describe this in more detail?

Yes, the first thing that often happens in the process of enlightenment is the flowering of the heart.  You for the first time discover real compassion, real love for human beings.  But as this becomes deeper you lose a sense of separateness.  Even at this point we really do not call you fully enlightened.  We call you fully enlightened only when you are experiencing reality as it is. To experience reality as it is these are some kinds of pre-requisites. Very rarely it happens suddenly in a big way. So these may be called stages of enlightenment.  Enlightenment itself is experiencing reality as it is.

Is that equivalent to oneness?

It is equivalent to oneness.  But of course, oneness itself just takes off from there and finally becomes oneness with God, or oneness with cosmic consciousness.  It is the ultimate oneness. But that could be difficult for some people, to say that man and God could become one. That some people may not accept, but it is a reality that people can become one with God.

You speak of designing your own God. What do you mean by that?

When I speak of designing your own God I do not mean that you create your own God. God is someone who creates you, and you do not create God. But the way he is going to treat you and the way he is going to conduct himself with you depends on how you expect him to conduct himself with you.  This is taken from the Hindu concept of ‘bhakta paradeena’, that God is dependent on the devotee. So if you want him to be a friend he behaves like a friend. If you want him to behave like a mother, he behaves like a mother.  So it is in your hands to design the way he is going to behave with you. That’s how I say you design your own God.

So certain aspects, certain views of God will make it easier to actually receive this gift.

Yes, it can be very easy to receive this gift.  If your concept of God is a very friendly one then you don’t even have to pray.  You just ask it and he gives it to you.  Thousands of people have this kind of relationship.  I am only talking about when people have actually achieved it, not before that. So people have made God their friend, a very friendly God. This includes, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, people of all faiths.

And God is masculine as well as feminine?

God is masculine as well as feminine, or light or formless.  Many have only a formless God. Many have it as just light. Some even have him as both male and female.  Each person has complete freedom. It’s the individual’s choice.

You also speak of designing your own enlightenment.

Your own enlightenment, yes, like for example, you can design how much of heart you want, or how much of oneness you want, or how much of experiencing your reality you want.   Again it depends on your passion, the kind of books you have read, the kind of seeking you have had.

So it’s really the beginning of a lifelong journey or exploration…

Exploration, yes. And you can change it also, in the course of time, you can change it.  In practice we find that people achieve different states of enlightenment.

What determines what state of enlightenment a person receives? Does it have to do with karmic factors or does it have to do with your belief systems?

It has a lot to do with your belief systems, closely followed by your karma.  Very often it has to do with your belief systems, the kind of conditioning you have gone through.   But you can change it if you want to at some point in time, if you feel like it. So that’s why I am saying you can design your God, and you can design your enlightenment.

Bhagavan, I remember when I was young I was very fascinated by the life and teachings of Jesus, and always wondered what it would be like to be born in his times, to be one of his disciples, when he sent them out to go heal the sick and relieve suffering.  What is fascinating to me now is that the same kinds of miracles, the same kinds of healings are beginning to happening now with the deekshas and with other circumstances. Would you like to say something about that?

Yes, this is the continuation of that work that Christ left behind.  This should have happened in fact 2000 years ago, this transformation of man, but for some reason it got aborted.  But now the same thing has come back.  So in the deekshas people are getting in touch with Christ consciousness, especially in the west.  They are discovering the same consciousness which Christ was trying to give them.  It is no different from that.  In fact I would say that would be true Christianity, as Christ intended it to be.

Yes, Christ said “I and the Father are One”.


So from that consciousness, miracles are possible. So as people experience the same consciousness today the same miracles are being evident.

Yes, exactly. 

You mention that here are certain miracles taking place in Orissa.

Yes there is a place in Orissa, called Gutagaon, where thousands of people come, and get healed. There is another place called Bhimavaram where surgeries are done on them as they come and lie down in front of the srimurti. 

Like miracle surgeries. Like psychic surgeries?

Miracle surgeries, yes.  More and more this will be happening around the country and around the world.  These are not miracles that I go and do, they are spontaneous miracles occurring around the planet. I personally do not do any miracles like that. I am not a miracle worker in that sense.

But you train people to become miracle workers.

Yes, around them these miracles happen.

So it’s really cosmic consciousness that allows the miracles to take place.  So the fact that is happening more and more, and that enlightenment is happening more and more, you have spoken about this in relationship to what you have called the ‘morphogenetic fields’.  Could you describe that phenomenon?

Yes, for example this phenomenon is about 12 years old, and we have found that at certain intervals it becomes more powerful.  So what we have discovered is that the more people get that state it becomes easier for other people get that state, whether it is in connection with healings or the enlightened state or other states of consciousness. We find that people who come later are getting it more easily and much faster.  So obviously there is a field which is absorbing all this transformation and able to transfer it to others much faster.  That’s how the morphogenetic fields are really helping.  We can see it in action.

There is a psychologist in America, David Hawkins. And he has devised a scale of consciousness from 0 to 1000. At the bottom end of the scale are emotions like guilt, shame, fear, whereas on the upper end you have love and joy and enlightenment.  What he says is that one person who is holding the state of joy or love or enlightenment can actually counterbalance thousands or even millions of people who are holding the states of guilt, shame and fear that so many people are stuck in. So what he says is that this is also a morphogenetic field and what is taking place is that because it doesn’t take a large number of people, as long as they are high on the consciousness scale, they can actually create a huge wave of enlightenment.

Yes that’s very true. That is the purpose of the sages and saints; they have to counterbalance the other negative energies.  That is why we believe that once we have 64,000 people, that will be enough for transforming the whole of mankind.

Why 64,000?

Somehow that seems to be the necessary number for making this happen very spontaneously… These are factors which have been revealed to us. We don’t fully understand the dynamics, but these were revealed to us. We go on the basis of revelation. It is not just something that comes to one person, but if it is something that happens to many people over a long period of time, that is what we accept as revelation. That becomes our road map.

How long will it take to get 64,000 people enlightened?

It could take anywhere from one year to 6 years. It can happen very fast also. It depends on how quickly people respond. It could happen in a few months time also.  So we can’t really specify the time here.  It can happen very fast, or it can take a little more time.

So now you are training people to give deekshas themselves, and this will be a part of this. They will move out across the earth and they will begin to give deekshas and make people enlightened, and then eventually, like you said, it will happen through a touch, a glance, a prayer…

It could happen very very fast.  Let’s say people read your book that could be some kind of deeksha.  Or they can flock to your talks or programs where you are giving deeksha, and it could happen very very fast. It can happen very fast really.  People must be very serious. That’s all that is required.

I know some musicians who have gone through the deeksha training, and so as they perform the music, then that itself could be a deeksha.

Yes. And one thing likely to happen, as people read your book, they could also get some kind of deeksha.  That’s also very much possible.

I notice that when I was writing the book it was flowing through in such an amazing fashion, the entire book was written in 10 days. In fact, I felt your presence coming through so strongly. So I am sure it is a deeksha.

Yes, it is more like our architect who designed our Oneness Temple. It just flowed through him, and in no time at all it was ready. It was just lying before him.

You said about the Oneness Temple, that when people go in to worship, people can come in from any religious faith, but what they will see is a reflection of their own God.

Yes, it is a very strange temple, and there will be a strange throne there, an empty throne.  And when people from any faith will come and worship they will see their God or a sign of their God’s presence on the throne. It will only be visible to them. They can pray in any fashion they want. And they will see their God on the throne. That’s what is so unique about it.

So it is an inner revelation.  It also reminds me of the phenomenon that is growing known as the ‘phala deeksha’. What actually happens?

In phala deeksha the God whom they worship appears before them. They could have a dialogue with that God and ask them for whatever they want or any clarifications they need about their life.  It is a great dialogue between man and God. And God may grant them their wish, and in case he is not granting it he will give them a reason why he is not granting it. So it is a one to one relationship between man and God. So he gets what he wants.

So it is no longer dependent on faith. It is a real life experience.

It is a real life experience.  It does not depend on your faith.

It shows the change in the relationship between man and God.

Yes. There is a change.  Something very epochal is happening here. There is a definite change. God is coming very close to man.  And man too.  It is a lost relationship. They were supposed to be very close in the last Golden Age. They are supposed to have walked and talked together, you know. Then there was a strange alienation between man and God. And it generated in subsequent yugas.  So now that the Golden Age is back, man and God have to come together. They become friends again. That’s it.

I see the veils are beginning to thin between the dimensions and lokas.  One question that it brings up for me is the idea of death, because so many people are afraid to die, especially when they are conditioned by beliefs about hell, if they have done something bad, or even believe that they have done something bad, that they will go to hell. What actually happens to people as they make that passage?

What happens is that as people die and they are very scared of hell or of being judged by God, then very often they do not continue their journey. They get stuck in the earth sphere as earthbound spirits. That is an unfortunate thing that is happening. If people of different faiths do the necessary rituals and ceremonies then it is definitely possible to help them.  But more important would be to make them talk to God and realize that God is very friendly and is not going to stand in judgment over them. But this is going to require a shift in man’s thinking.  I think that’s the best way to liberate man.  He has to get friendly with his God, otherwise there is needless trouble.

So the actual passage of death is very beautiful and peaceful?

It’s very very beautiful.  The process of dying is a very beautiful process.  But for most people, it takes about three days to realize they are dead. Somehow it takes that much time.  That’s why people have to go through ceremonies to help them realize they are dead and then to prepare them for their journey to meet God. So if that can take place it is very easy.   But if on the other hand fear is put into the person they will hang around. Then they will have to be helped.

So there are spirit helpers who can assist them to go to the appropriate lokas?

Yes, that’s why when people come to us we work with them to help their ancestors, their parents and grandparents to be cleared. And once these people move away from the earth sphere the person can actually feel the liberation, they will feel a lightness. It’s not something to be believed in, but it can be experienced.

Bhagavan, what about people who have died? When global enlightenment happens,  will they also be…

They will be spontaneously enlightened.  It’s not only for the living but also for the dead.

So then they can choose to reincarnate again on this earth or somewhere else?

It’s up to them whether they want reincarnate on the earth sphere, or some other sphere, or some other planet.  It’s all up to them.  Such is the freedom given to man.

Bhagavan, there are many people who have been longing their whole life for love, who feel like this has eluded them, who are so afraid to love, who are so afraid to receive love, what would you say to people like that?

Yes, I think they will soon be soaked and bathed in love.  I think there will soon be spontaneous occurrences of this. Before enlightenment occurs people will have discovered love, I think. And that will soon be followed by enlightenment itself.  And that will be followed by oneness with God.  I think hat will be the order.

So enlightenment, God-realization, love…

Enlightenment, God-realization, love all these things are going to happen, people won’t have to try and get there, these will just spontaneously happen.

I think that’s the biggest gift that you are offering, that there is no striving necessary, in fact the striving itself can be a block, an obstacle to receiving it,  because then the mind feels like it can do something.

Like it can do something, yes.  The poor mind cannot do anything, it is conflict ridden, it is in opposition with itself, it is repetitive in nature, it is too ancient.  So really it can’t do much.  It has to realize it is helpless and give up. That’s when grace can take over.

You speak about the mind as the ancient mind. What do you imply by that?

By that I imply that basically its structure has not changed. That fear is at the core of the human mind.  Earlier it could have been the fear of a tiger or lion; today it is the fear of the stock market or the fear of losing your job. Then you were very anxious abut the weather, now you are anxious about your job or other things. The same craving is there, the same desires are there.  The objects of desire have changed but the desire to be something else is still there.  You see, fundamentally man has not changed, that’s why I call the mind very ancient. Only the objects have changed, the objects of craving, the objects of fear, the objects of anxiety, they have changed.

But fundamentally it is the same old mind, living continuously in fear, living continuously in becoming, moving from where you are to where you want to be.  It does not stay put.  It is not where it should be.  It mainly lives in fear.  And basically there is no change in man.  So I do not see any difference between Homo sapiens and Neanderthal man.  We have had limited experience of people who have lived earlier, and we see that fundamentally they are the same.

So when we are enlightened we can leave this mind behind.

You can leave this mind behind, yes. You can become completely free of the mind. I am talking of a transformation where you become free of the mind.  I am not focusing so much on a transformation within the mind. That the psychologists and the philosophers can do. And they are doing a fairly good job. So I don’t have to waste time on that. But I am talking of becoming free of the mind itself.

 Bhagavan, do you have any plans to travel around the world?

Certainly not in the near future. Maybe sometime, it’s very possible.  I don’t really need to travel. I can do my work from wherever I am.

Do you feel that at some point your work will be over?

Most certainly, yes. The moment the world is enlightened, my work is over.  The moment humanity becomes one humanity, one complete humanity, and all the divisions have ceased, my work is over. I am here to remove all divisions in whatever form they might exist.

So Bhagavan would you like to say any final words to readers of this book, or to people watching this video?

I would like to tell them that though humanity faces a lot of obstacles, and danger seems to be lurking around the corner, I would like to tell them that redemption is around the corner, that we are going to make it!

Bhagavan, I am so grateful to be in your presence, and to know that this redemption is around the corner. I am sure many many people around the world echo my sentiments, just to know that there is hope and that there is a plan, that we are entering into a Golden Age, and that the deeksha is possible now, that it can actually transform people’s lives so completely and so beautifully in a way that was never possible before. So please accept my heartfelt gratitude.

It has been so nice talking to you.

Thank you. Namaste.